Raul Hernandez Ochoa

00:03 Welcome back so that you could work podcasts today talking to Paul McWitz. Paul is an Army veteran and experienced digital marketing professional and he's the CEO of honorable marketing.

00:15 He opened up his agency to provide professional service businesses with a trustworthy knowledgeable team in their corner who live up to the values he learned in the military.

00:26 And he is on a mission to use his and his team's God-given talents to help honorable businesses. is to promote how they are positively impacting their local communities online.

00:39 All welcome to the pod. Oh man, super happy to be here. Super excited about it. Dude, we can talk about marketing, we can talk about growth, we can talk about agency life, but I think one of the, I'll give you a context, I was on a podcast this morning, talk about growing agencies, scaling companies,

00:55 pricing services, positioning for high-profit and like selling five, six-figure relationships. That's cool. the difficulty, the host asking something, the difficulty is like, what's the biggest hurdle people run through?

01:07 What do you see the number one issue that we have as service providers, entrepreneurs and founders? In my opinion, it's the doing, the execution and leading others to do what we need them to do and what they need to do to be successful because that includes a lot of suck time, meaning there's going to

01:24 be difficulty. There's going to be hurdles. There's going to be friction. There's going to be like going to the gym, muscle tearing, difficulty in some quote unquote paint.

01:36 I kind of want to talk about that here. I think that we have, you have rich experience in growing, understanding the growth pains and want to just open up the door to hear what have been some of the biggest transformations you've made personally and in your business that affected your business.

01:51 And what was that process like specifically with managing a team, managing yourself expectations, clients like, but I'm going to start from on the top, like, what were some of the biggest pivot points in your career?

02:05 Yeah, well, we had a really big one very early on. Actually, when we opened up as October 2019, and we were working with restaurant groups, so five months later, we lost all of our clients and as a brand new marketing agency, that's not a great way to start.

02:21 So I really sat down and I thought about what type of impact I want to have. I'm a military veteran.

02:28 and I like to think myself is very courageous. I'm trying to live as fearless as I can. But I even have a picture of myself from just a few months before I started my company.

02:39 I was a COO at a different company, and suddenly people weren't getting paid, suddenly I was getting paid. It was a horrible situation, and we had a wedding coming up, a very expensive wedding, a destination wedding, in Miami, lots of financial burdens in my life, suddenly career burdens coming in and

02:59 for the first time ever in my life and I'm pretty happy go lucky carefree guy I had a series like panic attack and in that moment I was actually talking to God now saying like you know what do I do man like this company that just threw a whole bunch of money at me a couple of months ago thought I was

03:18 on this awesome upward trajectory and Suddenly we're not getting paid and we can't get all of the the financial backer of the company and like wheels were falling off.

03:27 And so in that moment, I kind of had one or two directions I could go. I could either swallow in that little self-pity for a minute, or I could say, all right, this is some fuel.

03:38 There's some burn right here. This hurts, this sucks. And I took a picture of it. A picture of my face.

03:45 It's the ugliest I've ever looked at my life. I'm pretty good looking guy, generally. But this picture crying, I'm upset, I'm beat up.

03:53 And so instead of like hiding from it. I've shown that picture to hundreds of people. No way, really. So you expose your most vulnerable, What else are you going to do with it?

04:05 Okay. Right? I get pissed at a lot of things. A lot of things are pretty jacked up in our country right now.

04:11 Yeah. And it makes you mad. Like, what about I could do one or two things? Or I could just sit there and be angry about it or I could try and find the positive thing in it.

04:19 And try and say optimistic about things. And really, that's how I look at a lot of things. and I feel it's actually a calling of mine to help business owners do the same.

04:29 A lot of them, when we stopped working with restaurant groups because COVID took that off from us, yeah. I had some experience working with law firms in the past, but I always had the love-hate relationship with it mostly because a lot of attorneys, let's be honest here, a lot of them are pretty big 

04:44 douchebags. They like started their law firm. Yeah. We can laugh about it. Not of my clients are, and I've fired clients in the past that we're just not a, yeah, they were ambulance chasing douchebags.

04:58 And they wanted unreasonable expectations around, and we're very good at what we do. Like all of our clients, if I haven't fired them, we have an amazing retention rate because we generate a positive ROI and can display it month after month.

05:13 But if If you're coming into running your business, thinking, how can I take advantage of people? You're not a good fit for our company.

05:22 And a lot of what you're talking about is exactly what we covered during my Monday meeting with my company is we were talking about principles because we have a lot of SOPs, a lot of standard responses that we use with clients, so we can systematize as much as we can.

05:35 But there's always situations that are going to come up, they're going to arise in which you just don't have an SOP for.

05:41 Yeah, and in those situations, the only thing you can really do is fall back onto your principles and whether that's personal principles or Company-wide principles We had a great little round robin in our meeting just asking my team like what principle do you feel you fall back on When you don't know

05:58 what to do and it was it was great to To see my employees This wasn't something I was dictating from the top saying like this is our principle I was like how do you come and you bring it out to me in it and they were really hitting on a lot of them.

06:12 And it made me very proud because being a military veteran, being a guy who I think I'm pretty badass and most of what I do, like I try to be tough and strong and courageous in all this but the reason we changed the name of our company to honorable marketing as opposed to before we were hashtag smart

06:27 marketing because I'm a lot of things but I don't think smart is like a big differentiator with me and a lot of other digital marketers out there.

06:37 A lot of us we know what we're We've been in the industry for a long time, we know tactics, we know strategies, but I think what really separates my company from a lot of the other ones out there is the fact that we're honorable.

06:47 The fact that we do the right thing, you know, if you don't know what to do, you do the right thing.

06:51 That's one of our principles. Same with even when we're building a website, anybody that's listening to us that built a website for a client before knows that the biggest thing that slows it down is waiting on the client to get you feedback.

07:02 get you content. It's the worst, right? So my team, we have a rule on our website development side where it's take take action, ask for forgiveness later.

07:14 So I would rather deliver a 90% done website in a couple of weeks than deliver a 20% website because I'm like, it's the waiting on this, the waiting on that.

07:23 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The amount of clients that have come back said like, I love that you guys just take action.

07:30 Like, if we need content on something, there's so many amazing tools, there's chat GPT, I can generate content in 30 seconds.

07:37 And then send it over to them and say, like, hey, how does that sound? Do you like the tone of it?

07:41 Like, but it's not saying, hey, can you write me a page of content about being a personal injury attorney? Like, that's just never gonna push the needle for this guy.

07:48 And so by really being Being honorable, being an action taker, seeing every kick in the face as an opportunity to be stronger on the other end, and I think that's some of the biggest keys to our success.

08:02 I like how you brought it around towards proactive action, and I think that just going through things personally too, like when you're in that low moments, like walk us through, so you fall back on your, you mentioned your values, right?

08:16 So it's setting those values within yourself, but then also with a team and identifying what What do they fall back on?

08:21 How do you manage that? It seems to me like you're more intentional with your leadership with your team. How do you manage that within the team when something goes, hey, why are it could be as simple as we're going over budget for a client's scope?

08:32 It could be as difficult as, hey, we need to pivot and offer because it's failing in the marketplace or client isn't paying, like within last three months, like, how do you manage that with others?

08:42 Because you seem very self controlled personally, but I think also the art is how do we navigate that through others and have them successfully navigate these situations.

08:53 I think I like looking at all the digital marketing agencies out there and looking at us as the anti this the anti that so I work with a lot of law firms and medical professions.

09:03 Okay, and so often I say we are the anti-final, the anti-scorpion. They take a client and they stick them in their box and then put them out on the market.

09:14 Where as when a client comes in with us I think I ask them questions that they've just never been asked before.

09:19 I help them come up with what truly like what their unique value is and then even digging in and helping them understand what their unique mechanism is so that we have something that we can market, right?

09:31 Like there's only so many differences in a personal injury attorney, right? You like you got to find something special about them and the special way that they do something because now it's I have a client Ben Drake he is the Drake difference when she like lets you know exactly where your case stands

09:46 every three days. And like cool stuff like that that you can now market that other law firms are doing. We do the same thing.

09:52 Our onboarding is truly like a masterclass in understanding differentiation because not enough marketers do that. They say, what do you do?

10:01 And they tell the world what you do. Yeah. I ask like, what do you do? Why do you do it?

10:06 What do you do? That's different from that guy. What do you do? What is it about you? personally that makes what you do special.

10:12 What are these? So finding the uniqueness. And that's another thing. I'm a Christian. I think God has blessed us with so many amazing things around us.

10:21 One of the things that I pray about a lot of times is just like, give me discernment. And I think God constantly reminds me how just awesome human beings are.

10:32 Oh yeah. And then when I look at a client, I don't look at them as like, oh, this guy's going to pay me three grand a month.

10:38 I look at him like, This is a cool guy who's positively impacting his local community. How can we get more people to recognize that?

10:46 Even if I have to go to him and say, like, Hey, give charities that you donate to that I could just find those cool things around it.

10:53 But what you're asking is like, how do I get my team to also understand that thing? And I have them literally work like hand in hand with me through the onboarding process.

11:02 I think there's nothing more important for a marketing company than like for 60, 90 days. Yeah, really getting to know the client building a campaign that not only is effective, but it's portraying them in a way that they always wished that they could be portrayed online.

11:17 A lot of that comes down to helping them eliminate fear. There's a lot of definitely on the medical side, but certainly on legal side too, where they're like, oh, I don't want to post that on social media.

11:29 I'm like, yeah, but that's you. like, what are you going to do by using that coaching that it is that the execution sometimes?

11:37 Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of it is. I've had a lot of law friends pick. Oh, why did you post this the other day?

11:41 I'm like, because it works, man, because you have dogs. You love dogs. We posted about some dogs. We got some conversations started around your business and things like that.

11:50 I'm like, do you have a problem with us posting about dogs? You know, it just isn't legal. I'm like, not everything has to be like, this is what we do every day.

11:58 People have to like you. People  relate to you. People have to have something in common with you. A lot of people love dogs.

12:03 You own three dogs. Like, that is a great thing about you. You told me that during the onboarding and we worked that into your campaign.

12:10 And again, it wasn't a, hey, can we post about dogs? Because then we never would have been able to post about dogs.

12:14 It's not just a random thing. It's more you're tying it back to a business outcome and seeing those inflection points, those minor moments that we could overlook, right?

12:22 Yeah. And my team getting to watch me do it. And now that we've been doing this for a long enough, and my team's been around, they're pretty well established.

12:30 Some of them, since the day we opened our doors, they get it and they've gotten to see me do it.

12:35 They also see, they've seen me refund clients before. And I'm extremely transparent with my team being like, hey, team, this is the client.

12:43 We just did a full refund. So stop all the work for them. The reason we did the refund is because they felt that they didn't have the budget forward anymore.

12:51 They felt like we weren't hitting the the imagery that they were looking for or yes, I think that they look for like I'm completely honest with my team.

12:59 I don't hide anything from them. Like really it's I don't like using the phrase like we're a big happy family because I think that's like I think it's a dysfunctional face that's a there's so many people in teams that are out there that and this is my point of view.

13:13 I think we can have a counter productive argument a healthy one to anyone that counters this but anyone who says we are a family is almost most to a point where you want them to work extra, you want them to make the business, your business, their business, it can become very unhealthy.

13:31 Essentially, you don't need to be a family, to be a winning team. You need to be a winning team to win championships.

13:35 That's the key, in my opinion. Yeah, and I think a lot of it, I think the family just, it feels fake.

13:43 There's anything I'm pretty genuine in who I am and what I do. And yeah, so anything that kind of gives you that slimy feeling like I have what that's one reason why like I don't have a sales staff.

13:53 I am the sales staff interesting because I don't do these slimy like email campaigns or slimy ads like we put out cool content if people like it they resonate like we run ads but our ads are like here's some free here's we call it on our medical sites called the Prospect to Patient Protocol.

14:10 I'm a military guy I like protocol it like steps I like all that and we give away this 40 page ebook for free this is what we do this is how we do it There you go.

14:19 If you have any questions. Yeah, you can do it yourself. It even has, like, here are some cool prompts for chat GPT to help.

14:27 I don't think you should be using it for everything, but it is a great, like, take around some ideas. There's a lot of cool tools to leverage.

14:34 I want to ask a few tactical questions and then more again on the higher level side, but a tactical piece.

14:39 One thing that I'm seeing in the marketplace right now is generosity marketing, focusing on adding value, first building the relationship.

14:47 One of the key counterpoints I've been seeing or hearing depending again on per industry is the email follow-up sequence. I'm curious to know how you follow up with clients or how you follow up with prospects, because I'm here at Guru with continual follow-up touch points, makes off call to actions, 

15:02 article to actions, etc. There are some people in the marketplace that say, hey, if you send me a follow-up email, like an automated follow-up, like you've lost the relationship.

15:10 So I'm curious to see your take on that being in the game. Yeah. I think that displaying who you are is really important.

15:18 I'm a firm believer in generosity marketing. I think that giving away what you do, letting people see who you are as a human being is important.

15:29 As far as follow-up emails, I have a few sequences, but generally it's more like the cold end. So I hear how to get to know me.

15:36 Like, here's a video. Here's a podcast I was on over here. Here's a way to get to know me. When And it comes to follow up email.

15:43 Again, I don't have like a big sales department. So it is usually me trying to provide them with some special piece of value.

15:52 So if I do have like some type of canned responses, but more often than not, it's like, hey, no, you've got 25 reviews on your Google Plus page or your Google business listing, but I see you haven't answered any of them.

16:05 I see one here. I think you could, it's a great review. I think that you could answer it in a cool way.

16:10 So you manually follow up, I see about half the time I say manually follow, but I do have some like kind of stock things that I feel reflect me like hey, if I only have to go in there and write like 25 the amount of views that they have and say like 19 not answered and just pick one and then write a 

16:28 quick response to it that I think would generate future business or display their customer service online in a way that a lot of their competitors aren't that's worth 30 seconds to me.

16:38 I also am a big believer in, I don't want to work with everybody, I know this about myself, I know that I've worked with enough law firms that I know that there's particular types of lawyers that I don't want to work with.

16:50 It's also one of the big reasons that I work with so many naturopathic doctors is like I'm a veteran so I've gone to the VA healthcare system and I've seen how the general answer for like a veteran saying I'm physically in pain, I'm mentally having some issues is like rows and pills at them as fast as

17:08 they can. And I've seen a lot of my fellow soldiers like go through some real tough times because of that.

17:12 And luckily for me, my wife, we didn't want to have our kid at a hospital. We wanted to do the whole home birth and everything.

17:19 COVID ruined that whole other side story. But I generally avoid hospitals as best I can. But I will go to a naturopath and explain to them what my diet is, you know, or an osteopathic doctor, and functionality-wise, check out my body, and see how things are going.

17:38 But I think that over medication is a huge issue, especially with military veterans in the VA, but also 66% of the American population is on some sort of pharmaceutical.

17:48 I think there's a lot of problems with the medical system, and so working with naturalopathic doctors, I feel personally important to you.

17:55 Yeah, and so now when you're talking about like writing follow-up email and things like that. When I write something like, I wanna help you capitalize on the loss of trust in mainstream healthcare.

18:05 I'm, that's not a salesy bullshit email. I'm 100% serious. Yeah, you know what I'm gonna tell you is, if I'm sending something to an employment lawyer, I work with a lot of employment law because I'm like, yeah, like through these corporations, like that is not benefiting it.

18:19 If they're fighting against unions and things like that. Yeah, let's go get as much money out of them as we can.

18:25 So finding cool employment lawyers because I believe in what they're doing, similar with a lot of the personal injury attorneys, the ones that are good, they're fighting against insurance companies, which are somebody gets their car accident, they're like, all right, we'll give you $80,000 for it.

18:38 And the people like think that's great. And then they talked to a good personal injury attorney, and suddenly they're getting like a mill and a half because they know how to not let these insurance companies take advantage of these people.

18:50 And so I take a lot of personal pride in choosing who I work with, and finding businesses that match what I'm looking to do, as far as positively impacting the world.

19:01 And so I don't have to. to sort of like concern myself all that much with like standard follow up email.

19:08 Because if I were value to what you're doing, but if you do scale yourself to like other sales team they might need to marshal.

19:14 All right, then alignment to. So here's the crazy idea I have about digital marketing. And what if I just kept all of my clients and I just never lost clients?

19:26 Then I can add five to 10 new clients every single month and keep all the clients I have, I don't have to worry about a churn rate.

19:35 I don't have to worry about losing revenue at the end. I just have to provide amazing service and keep generating a positive ROI and clients will never leave me.

19:44 And that's been our business model. We're strange, we're weird. I don't wanna pull in 20 new clients every single month that I can't take care of.

19:51 I think that's okay. That's the game. I know I can onboard 10 of them. It with a really great experience and still scale up my production.

20:00 And I've got 12 people in my company, all in production. I know I've said it before, but I'm the only sales guy.

20:06 Like I'm not building out, I don't have a big sales system. I care about my clients succeeding. And because of that, they never leave me.

20:13 And I get so many referrals from it. So I do some paid ads and some social and some client acquisition strategies.

20:21 But I kind of get to pick and choose a lot of like the people that I really want to go after.

20:28 And because there's just not very many like really good marketing companies that kind of like built their company backwards. Yeah, I actually met with the sales company like a sales enable company.

20:39 And I was explaining my business and he's like, you did this completely asked backwards. And I was like, did I?

20:46 I don't think so. I think you designed it. This is one of the things that I focus on a lot is that.

20:50 Why are you doing what you do, like why are you actually in the game and you'll quote unquote lose clients when they sell a business X of the business are retiring that's there's natural churn there's natural churn but that's a positive way to have clients send them off to the sunset.

21:08 The question though is when you're growing your business and you're whatever your scale goal is like why are you actually doing it and I think this depends on the personality the owner of the founder and I think your personality is very much an alignment to a lot of the thing one of the podcasts of course

21:23 but I'll in alignment to how I operate the standard up like the whole key around design the business you want work backwards to achieving that and you choose your own stressors and I have some teams that charge significant amount per month and like their churn might be the healthy it could be a year 

21:42 six months could be 18 months whatever it is for the whole idea is that's by design. What you're doing here, that's by design, not having a sales team, you don't need a sales team, that's by design.

21:52 To be focusing on things that are mission alignment to you, where it's not really work, it's almost like fun to add value and create that's by design.

21:57 I think that's the number one thing that we need to focus on building businesses, scaling up because it's essentially your lifestyle.

22:02 You're choosing how you want to show up, where you're showing up, and how you're making an impact. So I don't think it's backwards by any stretch of imagination.

22:10 I think this how businesses thrive consistently over time to hit the 10-year mark and then the 30-year mark. Yeah, yeah, I didn't build this business to be done in five years.

22:22 I built it to less build some lasting impact and plus the other thing is it's like weird or like hippy-dippy spiritually as this will sound but I think that people are like waking up to what a crock kind of the world has been around us for the last, I don't know, like 40, 50 years of like very greedy

22:42 society, very wolf-a-wall street, boiler room, like that's the world that we live in. And because I work with so many natural, pathic doctors, that they are some of the sweetest, nicest people that you're ever meet, because they started a company to help others like live naturally healthy lives.

23:03 It's really great. It's inspiring from me because these are like truly like some of the best humans we have out there.

23:13 What is more important than your health? What is more genuine than doing it in a natural way that isn't some pharmaceutical?

23:20 Similarly with a lot of my employment lawyers and finding these guys that you're passionate about it. Like you're you're not Yeah, yeah, it's tough because like I've a lot of the attorneys that I work with came up poor came up in a different country some of them came up dragging themselves pull themselves

23:40 up by their bootstraps those are the people that I really like really like working with and so I've definitely have some times when like I'm doing some lead gen and I get a message and I look in this guy's like y'all like yeah you're probably like let me read this back story a little bit more yeah you

23:55 know what you're fine, you can go do a scorpion or final like they could go put you in a box and you'll be fine and I see this dude that you know what's a like some community colleges first and then I had a career and then became a lawyer after it I'm like oh this guy knows he wants to make it happen

24:09 yeah he's yeah and so not that people from you can't but I see what you're sure yeah you're going with intention you're going like is this the right fit to me like almost rebel entrepreneur yeah no no no like yeah those people I want to see them succeed I want to see small businesses like truly like 

24:26 the lifeblood of our country and what whatever I can do to keep pushing that needle and keep what I feel like is re-regulating how things should be.

24:35 I don't think there should be an Amazon. I think there should be 50 Amazon's. I think that we need to get smaller again.

24:41 And so, so working with small businesses is like truly like perfect for my mentality because I'm not helping anybody take their law firm from just them to what is a Salino and Barnes.

24:53 If you are getting up to like Salino and Barnes aspirations with your law firm, I'm probably another right guy. And that's okay.

25:01 Yeah. You should have an in-house marketing team that's doing a lot of stuff for you and really amping it up.

25:07 If you're different stages, different people for different stages, right? Yeah. And I think understanding that and like being genuine and authentic with who you are and you like working with, it changes the sales process for me for sure.

25:19 Like I don't do these massive cold email campaigns. I do ads that say like you want to help your community, you want to positively impact your community, I want to help you.

25:28 So focusing on the small, that was pretty interesting. We had someone who focused on small business growing small. Like that's a different mentality and I think you're right, it's contrarian towards just skill super fast, super high profits, it's super high revenue as quickly as you can to exit.

25:44 I think that's, again, different goals, depending on where you're at. I think it might just to close off the final question that I had and this was the question that you teed up so perfectly with this conversation here is, how do you set, and maybe this is, maybe you don't, maybe it is already healthy

25:57 , but how, it seems like you're really close to it. You're really close to the client, you're really close to the outcome.

26:02 And that can be very healthy in a way where you get results, you drive, you focus the client and feel the passion, but then also can be unhealthy where you've got your own life, your own business, your own family, your own community like how do you set those boundaries and how do you know when you're

26:15 too close? That is a great question. I really thought about it all that much because I have very broad shoulders.

26:22 That's how I look at it. I've always, I've got through some shit in my life. I spent a little over a year in Iraq like they're I've had clients yell at me before and then follow me like two hours later and be like I'm sorry man you handled that right because I'm totally fine getting yelled at somebody

26:39 saying I'm not seeing the results out that I want. I'm like, I gotcha. We will work harder. We will figure it out and then I'll change something up a little bit or send them over some new content.

26:48 But I understand that people are passionate about their business and that's great. You should be passionate about your business. I also understand that it's my job to get a hidden objective.

27:00 It's not my job to be your best buddy. It's not my job to cuddle you all that much. It's my job to be honest with you and tell you like, hey, if your website sucks and it's not converting, like your website sucks, it's not converting.

27:12 We need to do something like they don't, but what's cool about that is because I'm so open and up front and authentic with these people that I think that they feel a deeper, genuine connection with me than certainly any other marketing company that it worked with, but to the point where I get invited

27:32 to holiday parties. I get invited to birthday parties for a client, I've got a client's got a 40th birthday party coming up soon that I'm going to.

27:39 I get Christmas cards, like it's nice. It's nice that they see me in that way. And really the only thing that I'm doing is being genuine and honest and truthful with them.

27:52 And I'm not trying to sugarcoat something, if something's not working, it's not working. But also because we're action takers, if something's working.

27:58 We catch it pretty quickly and we can solve it. Yeah, we problem solve and we move on. And I think that like carrying about your clients is really important.

28:06 I think that like if my client's not happy about something, I feel it. I feel it. But I also know I've done this thought hundreds and hundreds of times that if something's out working, I can figure out why it's not working.

28:20 We can fix it. We can make it work. And if I now have also had clients say, hey, this is working and they left me in three months later, called me up and said like, yeah, these other guys didn't work out.

28:31 We're going to come back. I'm like, all right, cool. It's like it's a mentality of what is Ted Lasso say, be a goldfish.

28:38 It's like, there you go. It was him from Paul Ted Lasso. I love it. It's true. I just had a client get upset about something the other day and then he called me back two days later and said, hey, I appreciate you taking care of that so quickly.

28:50 Sorry, sorry, I was an ass. I was like, it's cool, man. like don't worry about it. You have a very stressful job.

28:55 And having that little bit of empathy and that compassion towards them, and understanding that they're a human too, they've got goals, they're passionate, and not letting that spill over into my life.

29:04 I also live a really awesome life. It's like that, but clients are mad at me. I also have a 16-month-year-old kid that looks up to me like I'm a superhero.

29:13 Which am I gonna focus on? You got the perspective, yeah, and that's me. I like going back to our initial conversation.

29:18 What are you focusing on? The gratitude and taking action. not that's key man, it's like a corner. So that's your fallback them that and you are what happens to you are your reaction to what happens to you.

29:30 And so I could yell back if I really wanted to. I and I have before I one guy called he said, which idiot on your team did something?

29:39 And I was like, let me just tell you, Mr. attorney said I have never had to adjust a website so many times with attorneys coming and going as I have with you.

29:49 So I don't think we should be talking about teams here because apparently you you got some issues with keeping people over there.

29:54 My team is working really hard. I'm so sorry we misspelled something on the social media post. There's no reason for you to get that man.

30:01 And eventually I let that guy go. That was one of the guys that I had to say like you're not a good fit for us.

30:06 I tried pulling out the good in him for a few months and he just he wasn't well and then he went back to Scorpion which is cool.

30:14 Me too. You can. Do what you can. And it's not my job to save people. I'm not my kid thinks of a superhero but I don't have to be a to them.

30:21 I can't save people, but it's not my job to save people. It's my job to help them save themselves. That's an interesting perspective.

30:28 I've had a lot of friends in the Miller's area, podcasts, and different branches, and that it always comes back to that.

30:34 Put your face mask on first, your oxygen mask on first, and then you can help other people, but you're empowering them.

30:41 Pretty interesting, man. I think that's, I think what you said was pretty key earlier around And you focus on what you can do, not what happens to you, that's what you are, and being able to fall back on drawing out the good.

30:55 I think those are simple principles, but I think in the midst of difficulty, the midst of business, the midst of intentionally being small, but not in a quantitative way and a more impactful way, it can help us navigate as we not only grow ourselves, but our teams or businesses or community.

31:12 Paul, for our listeners out there, what's the best place for people to want to thank you for being on and to learn a little bit more about what you're up to.

31:18 Yeah, I'm fairly active on Instagram. It's honorable entrepreneur is my Instagram handle. And then you can always check out our website honorable.marketing such as honorable.marketing.

31:29 Obviously, I'm on LinkedIn. You can just Google me good luck spelling my last name. But if you want to a fairly quick response to me, Instagram's your way.

31:38 Okay, we'll put those links in the show notes. Paul, thanks for being on that. Yeah, thank you so much, Ro.

31:44 It was great time. If you found value in today's podcast, please consider sharing this with some of the you believe could also benefit from this episode.

31:51 You never know, you may be the catalyst that opens them up to a new way of operating their business and experiencing life.

31:57 As always, it's an honor to be a small part of your journey. This is Drone Hernandez, do good work.

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