The Veteran Entrepreneur Masterclass

00:09 Brett, if I didn't know any better, your guest sounds like he could actually be your brother from a different mother.

00:15 Oh wait a minute Paul, how do you pronounce your last name? Macawitz. Macawitz, I had it right, okay. This is take two.

00:22 In three, two, and one. Brett, if I didn't know any better, your guess sounds like he could be your brother from a different mother.

00:31 Paul Macawitz is the founder and CEO of Hashtag Smart Marketing, and he deals with strategy, SEO, social media, and the like, but he is a vet who talks about values, rather like you, Brett Henderson.

00:44 So, how did the two of you meet? For Treaties Good Morning. Thank you so much for the introduction. That's great.

00:49 It's a wonderful question. How did we meet on LinkedIn? And brother from a different mother, hopefully this will turn into something where we have videos soon, so that a couple times, but yeah, we're both ginger beards, which is pretty awesome.

01:01 And I think if I hadn't been using Rogaine since 2002, we would have the same hairstyle too, but my some of my follicles are still hanging on the top of there, but Paul, you kind of, you kind of give it up there.

01:14 But that's how we met. Yeah, I mean, I saw myself, I saw the picture myself at a wedding when I was in my late 20s and I had a I had two paths that I could take either I could start buying Rogan and propitia and attacking this thing or just bite the bullet.

01:30 I'm one of those person, one of those types of people don't care enough about how I look to really invest that much time and effort into a razor is good enough for me.

01:38 Well, someone actually thinks you're good looking enough to marry, right? You married. Tell me about that and your little bundle of joy.

01:44 Your new bundle of joy? Yes. Yes. So I just became a father eight months ago. My son, his name is Lennox, Arizona.

01:53 And yeah, it's cool name. Because my wife and I were, we're interesting people. We're interesting cats. We were both New Yorkers, but we have lived in Miami together.

02:05 we moved out to California together and where we met in New York. She's this beautiful brunette that works in high-end luxury living up in Harlem.

02:16 I was a a hustler digital marketing expert doing trade shows every weekend and you know after we we met on Bumble and a nice little dating app and after some back and forth and we having to cancel the first day, almost cancel the second date because those two hung over from a Christmas party from the

02:39 digital marketing company. She finally dragged my ass up to Harlem and we met there at Lennox Ave at a little coffee shop and that's that's how our son ended up being named Lennox.

02:49 And yeah and and with that we were supposed to get married in April 2020. April I think it's seven to twenty-twenty.

02:58 Yes so needless to say three weeks before this wedding that she had been planning for a year and a half, you know, COVID hit.

03:06 She had to cancel everything. And, you know, it was pretty devastating. But us being the type of people we are, you know, she gets the furloughed from her job.

03:13 I had my own company, so I can kind of take off what time I need. You ran over, rented a camper van, drove to Arizona because all of California was closing.

03:24 We tried hitting up a courthouse in San Diego. We were trying to, we got up to Joshua Tree. we were like, I will just stay here for the weekend and watch some stars.

03:32 We're going to go to Phoenix and then my dad calls me on Sunday afternoon and says, Hey, Phoenix Court House is just closed.

03:38 So you're not getting married there either. So we woke up at about eight o'clock in the morning and drove to the first town across the border, Parker, Arizona.

03:46 Yeah, I kicked down the door and we're like, all right, need a wedding. We need a marriage license. Who's got it?

03:52 And you know, it's a, it's a crazy story of us literally traveling all around the town. I'd to pay a guy walking out of the probation office 50 bucks to be one of our witnesses.

04:02 That's awesome. Yeah, I sit in there smoking a cigarette. The best part is when he signed our marriage license. His name was Johnny star.

04:11 And he signed it big Johnny with a big star on our marriage license. That's awesome. Yeah, you frame that. Is it up on the wall?

04:21 Oh, it should be. It should be. Yeah, I've had a way so we're yeah, but um, but yeah, and so my wife and I we we brought our welcomed our first son into the world in in January and just like everything in our life, it was crazy and hectic, but we are we are the type people that adapt and overcome, you

04:39 know, so my wife tested positive for COVID the same day her water broke. And yeah, and we had gone through the entire time planning to do a home birth.

04:49 You know, I'm not a big fan of the medical system. I didn't like the idea of bringing a kid into the world.

04:54 Under some bright fluorescent lights, screaming, you know, yanked out. So yeah, we want to do a home birth and being a very loving environment for the kid.

05:04 But of course our midwife, as soon as Lauren had COVID, she wouldn't wasn't willing to do it anymore. So I'm calling, I'm calling six different hospitals at three o'clock in the morning trying to find one that would even let me in the room because all their COVID restrictions were just, you know, so 

05:23 restrictive. Right. And I was like, I'm in my mid 30s, I'm healthy. I've had COVID, what's already I got vaccinated like I've checked every single box for you and I can't get in this room.

05:35 I was, I was the boy where I was a, I was going start cussing some people out, being like, you people that you've lost all common sense, the luckily we found a hospital downtown L.A.

05:46 Good Samaritan hospital and did some sweet talking and they said, you know what, you're right, we feel it's more important that the father's there than any restriction.

05:54 I'm like, my wife just cough on me. Like I'll have COVID in 10 minutes, right? Let's do this. Well, we got Lennox Arizona's now here.

06:01 Yeah, and he gets asleep now. And how does that, how does that work with your business? How do you, how do you split your time?

06:10 Yeah, really not, not too hard. We have an office downtown where a lot of my production staff is, I am relocating to South Carolina at the end of this month.

06:18 It's, it's October. So I've been working remotely basically for the last like two months, preparing them to not have me there and manage themselves and things like that.

06:30 As far as the, the kid, you know, we, And again, my wife and I were a little weird. We didn't want to stick them into, you know, a daycare where, you know, he's gonna have a, we'd love the interaction with other children and things like that, but, you know, you don't need to teach a six-month-old anything

06:49 . That kid just needs love, right? So what we were really looking for was a home daycare. Somebody that, you know, wasn't gonna stick him in front of a TV or wasn't gonna sit here and try and, you know, teach him all this stuff at that age.

07:03 We just want someone that's going to hold them and love them and enjoy them. And so we interviewed quite a few ladies and we found this wonderful woman not too far.

07:11 And so it's really, you know, it's all about discipline and routines and everything. So wake up early, play with the kid for a little bit, get them all riled up and get them changed.

07:22 I've got a nice convertible Mustang. So he likes riding in the back of the Mustang with the top down. He loves it.

07:28 Yeah, take him down the street to the daycare and drop him off, get my butt here and jump right into work.

07:34 And crank, huh? That's good. Well, before we talk about work, why don't you tell me briefly what you did in the army?

07:39 Just just going to overview a couple of years you were in what you did and kind of how you came out of the army.

07:46 Yeah. I was a 13 Delta, which is a computer operator for field artillery. So I went to college for a year, changed my major four times.

07:55 I had no idea what I wanted to do selling golf clubs to a guy at Dixporting Goods. I've always been a big fan of golf.

08:03 It's kind of sprinkled in throughout my entire career. And, you know, in being as open a person I am, I was like, yeah, I have no idea what I want to do.

08:11 You know, he's like, I got an option for you. I was like, hey, you know, one of six kids and always been a bit of the wild child.

08:19 So I just showed up on my parents' house. I was like, hey, and join the Army and leave in two weeks.

08:24 Yeah, so see you in a couple of years. I figured it was good opportunity to get some direction in my life, good opportunity to get some college money, figure things out, serve the country.

08:35 It was after I enlisted after 9-11, so there was definitely some patriotism to it. My father was in the Air Force National Guard.

08:43 My grandfather was a tanker in World War II. so yeah so definitely had the heritage there for it so I was the but it's simply I was the smart guy in field artillery you know you got the smart guy I was the computer operator so you would have four observers and infantry would call me and say hey we're

09:09 taking fire from this ridge or they could give it to you in all sorts of ways, you know, mills, degrees, give me a direction and a distance.

09:19 Like, and we could figure it out with computer program. And then how is there's because you're shooting such a large round and it's rotating so fast it's going to drift to the right.

09:27 You know, humidity will make it not go as far. There's all sorts of different pieces of that algorithm. And basically I had to figure it out and do it in about 25, 30 seconds.

09:39 call down to the gun bunnies, tell them, you know, this round, this, this many white bags, this many red bags, uh, turn, turn crank 22 times this way, you know, turn the other crank 32 this way, pull string, go boom.

09:53 All right. So yeah, so I was, uh, yeah, I was basically the middleman, whenever we needed some, some things blown up.

09:59 And then it's spent a little over a year in Iraq. I got, um, extended twice when I was over there.

10:05 And actually I guess a third time because I even got back to Kuwait and thought it was it and only to find out that we had to do one more convoy and they needed a volunteer.

10:18 And since, you know, I was young guy, I was like 21 at the time, not married, didn't have girlfriend and you guys go home, I'll do this.

10:27 And so I did one last convoy mission without my unit. back up into Saider City, which is like the ghetto of Baghdad.

10:35 Yeah. Yeah, up in Northeast Baghdad. Then came back and when I got back, I informed I wasn't re-enlisting. And so my entire unit was getting relocated to Washington State.

10:46 And that was the second ACR, which was down station in Fort Polk, Louisiana. Yeah. Which it's an interesting place to get.

10:55 Yeah. get the station at you know it's funny when you go through basic they give you like those options like fill out your wish list like I was like I don't know somebody Germany send me to Hawaii send me to Colorado I even put on there send me to Fort Drum New York which nobody was going to Fort Drum

11:09 it's cold it's like in water town north of Syracuse tons of snow I was like worst case scenario I'll be somewhat close to family I'm gonna get the I get Fort Polk so in the Bayou in the Bayou is It's a very interesting place.

11:23 Learned a lot, but I spent the last year and changed that I was in playing oppositional forces at the joint readiness training center, JRTC.

11:34 So training a lot. Train NTC, is that NTC or the old NTC that changed the name? No, it's just different.

11:42 Yeah, it's just the four-pole version. Okay. So it's the OP4, not in Fort Irwin, but in, so in Louisiana, the Bayou versus the desert.

11:51 Yep. Exactly. Okay. Very similar. I have a bunch of little little pop up cities kind of builds and you know they they go through basically war games.

12:02 Teaching them a lot of stuff that we had to do over there, which is like providing security for elections and how to work with contractors and so me getting to play oppositional forces.

12:11 is I basically got to scream at them in whatever air brick that I could remember, cause chaos, using mills gear and shooting people from the laser tag, memory of the days, memory of the core days.

12:24 Let's shift then. So appreciate giving us a background there. But when you made up your mind to leave, when we first had a conversation, you told me about a story or your first company, which didn't go as planned.

12:37 And so remembering our audience is entrepreneurs viewers. And everyone's looking for the mindset, you know, successful mindset of entrepreneur, kind of walk me through that first business.

12:48 And I don't need all the details, the facts, but I really want to go through the emotional state. So you had your business, you're trying to get your, I'll let you talk about what the business was and where we're set up.

12:58 But just when you realized it wasn't quite working out the way you thought it was going to work out, I just want to hear You're you share in your own words and it's a little personal right because it's it's it's it's not a success story initially So I'd love to hear a little bit about that And I think

13:13 our audience would too because every time you start a business. You're not always successful and most businesses fail in the first three years So I'll I'll stop there.

13:22 Why don't you kind of share your first mindset of what you thought would be a good business And then as you went through it and you realized oh, it's maybe not what I thought it was going to be Yeah, my, so my career, it's, it's like a very meandering kind of circuitous type of career.

13:38 Because when I got out of the military, I became a golf pro for a few years. So I was giving lessons, best job in the world.

13:44 I just couldn't make any money doing it. So, so Vetch had to, I just have to do that. I start work for D*** Sporting Goods again, became a business analyst for them eventually got relocated to a few places.

13:54 He just got burnt out on that. There's a guy I was playing golf with. He was open in this new driving range indoor golf simulators bar restaurant entertainment center and so he hired me to come run it and I was very good at it.

14:09 I increased his profits by about 500,000 the very first year I was there. And there's just a lot of that was through like digital marketing and understanding how to get awareness about how cool this place was.

14:22 But then I was getting burnt out on being back in Buffalo. I was brushing snow off my car for like the, you know, third week in a row.

14:29 Right. Being like the sucks. So my sister lived in New Mexico. So I just said, you know, I'm in. Let's just, let's try something new.

14:37 So I drove out there and I was playing golf, surprise, surprise. Madagai, he had this idea for a scooter rental company.

14:45 And I was like, yeah, that's pretty cool. I think I get on board with that. I took the. What year was this?

14:51 Oh, geez, it's like 2014 probably. Okay. 2014, 2015. About eight, eight, seven years ago. Actually, 2013 is 2013, yeah. So what a while ago.

15:04 You know, it's funny. It's like I think about my history. I can't even like put dates to things anymore. Like it's all just a blur.

15:09 That's called my life. So I meet this dude and I decide to invest about 10 grand and buy about 20 scooters.

15:19 And basically what we built was he had one location in Ruedoso, which is this cute little mountainy town in New Mexico.

15:27 And I said, if we're going to do this, let's put a location in Albuquerque. Let's put a location in Santa Fe and Cloudcroft and Roswell.

15:33 And let's hit up all these places because the overhead honestly was nothing. We're renting a parking space basically for a day.

15:42 We would do a little pop-up shop. We'd buy these scooters for $450 or so. when we'd get the 49 CC scooters.

15:50 So they were, you didn't have to have a helmet. You literally just all you had to have was a driver's license and you can battery battery powered or yep fully bad oh well gas powered but I had a little battery for the starter and honestly that like they're not great quality but they got the job done 

16:08 right gave people the fun and excitement of scooting around their little vacation town that they were in and so I was you know hired a few people to kind of manage these shops.

16:19 One thing I will tell you is New Mexico is the hardest place I've ever found to like keep people for more than like a week.

16:25 I have people that I know what it is man. It's it's a it's a tough place. New Mexico enough if you anybody that's ever spent any significant amount of time there.

16:35 The Native American population is they have a lot of issues. We'll I'd have one person like pull me one way to like show him the scooter and how to start it and other guys over They're stealing keys off the desk like run into trying to steal one.

16:54 I'd like tackle a guy like it is yeah And and then finding employees that could manage the situation like that was also not exactly the easiest thing in the world So it was a lot of A lot of finding the right places to be for it But this this company for all the struggles and everything.

17:13 I mean, I was sleeping in a car like two nights a week I was driving, you know, driving 20 hours a week, you know, just hitting all the locations, making sure that things were running right, having to work at a location for a day, you know, basically every single day I was working at a different location

17:29 . To staffing or? Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a covered day's off for the people that we would have. And then New Mexico, it's a pretty big state.

17:38 I mean, getting from Ruedo, sort of Santa Fe is like four or five hour drive. So it's not like it's, you know, real quick skip hop and a jump around.

17:47 I had an air mattress in my car and I would just sleep in the back of the shops.

17:51 Some days just you know, just to catch some sleep. And my business partner was absolutely zero help. I mean, this guy was just a hinderance.

18:00 He fired my best mechanic because guy asked for a raise without talking to me. And he was the majority owner.

18:09 I was the Minority owner and operator so he was a he was the money guy. Yeah, he was the money guy and and he you know I boss my ass like real real hard for for a whole year running that company and Eventually it was just I mean I Start getting like these pains in my feet.

18:29 I didn't know if I was getting like fiber on my elbow or You know or if I had something else.

18:34 I found out I had Lyme disease I was there like I was running into some issues and really just beating the shit out of myself right and then a body of mine who he's been my best friend since we were like four years old we met each other first day kindergarten so he called me up one day because I'd always

18:53 talked about going and living in New York City and I never had I'd lived in Atlanta for a few years as golf pro and Buffalo and Rochester in New Mexico But I'd never actually gone and lived in the city and I just saw it as I call him my Moses.

19:06 I'm like, dude, you like you led me out of the desert. You know, right? Like you He basically said, hey, I've got a couch or roommate moving out figure figure out what to do for work and come on out.

19:16 And so Pass everything over to this new or to the to the owner. I said, hey or sell all scooters.

19:22 I don't care what you do. So when was let's let's talk about that. So there had to be a pivotal moment or that one day You're in the back of your car.

19:30 It's been there for a year, your feet are hurting. You got Lyme's disease, and I hear that's brutal, right? I'm from Pennsylvania, too.

19:35 So Lyme's disease, the Lyme's disease was a big thing from ticks when I was growing up or was getting to be a big thing.

19:40 Now it's gypsy malls that destroy it all over for us all summer long, but when was the pivotal defining moment when you're in there, you're trying to make this work?

19:49 It was, I mean, was revenue coming in? Was it going out? Were you seeing the money or were you kept away from the money?

19:55 Now, the biggest issue was the day that I sat down with him at this little restaurant and I said, yeah, I'm behind two weeks in pay, you owe me money.

20:08 Like, what's going on here? You have access to everything. You're the one that's handing out the checks. Why is my pay getting held up and I'm the one working doing all the work for this bust of my ass?

20:19 Right. and I remember looking at me and he basically just said well you know I just I don't think we're performing to the level that we should be and I was like you fired my my mechanic so now I'm doing mechanic work on scooters I'm working all these shots I'm doing everything I can I'm I'm hiring people

20:36 that are not showing up a few days later like I don't know what else to do I was kind of at my at my wits on right and I thought did you feel alone when you were in that space I feel very alone.

20:47 Yeah, yeah, we call it my middle name is Richard and so when I'm when I'm being a bit of an asshole, my friends call me D*****.

20:54 Of course. And so we we we referred to those days as the dark days of D***** because like I wasn't talking to anybody.

21:02 I wasn't I wasn't even my family. I was a talk to all that much. I was just had down boss in my ass and you know a year later.

21:13 I, nothing, you know, I hadn't gone into show for it, nothing to show for it. I was, you know, not getting paid now for all this work I'd done.

21:20 And at that point, I was just like the worst case scenario, like worst case scenario of leaving going to New York City, like, I'll find a job.

21:29 I'm very hireable, I'm, first of all, like, I'll figure it out. Right. I'm like, worst case scenario, I don't get this money from this dude.

21:36 I lost my $10,000 investment, you know, I learned a lot. I mean, I ran that entire company, he had no, he had like some paper contracts that he was using.

21:46 I basically built the company off of Google and Google Forms and I taught myself how to write scripts so that like as soon as somebody submitted a form, it would send them a PDF, it would send us a PDF, they could sign right on the, right on the iPad, I ran the entire company from iPads.

22:01 Oh wow. Yeah, and then I- Can you build it yourself? Yeah, yeah, I built all the forms and all the scripts and everything and I was using- rental agreements or what kind of scripts or what forms what it yeah so he had he had a rental agreement already that he had he had produced so I took that and basically

22:17 made the digital version of it and made it so that I really wanted to have the experience of when people got there it was efficient and quick and like felt very put together right and so basically I made like a little 3 minute video on safety on the scooter and they could just take a picture of their

22:37 driver's license and it would save it and fill out the form submission. They would sign right on it, hit that submit, they would get an email, I would get an email and then a GPS tracker would activate.

22:47 Awesome. And it was all a good system. Yeah, it was a great system. I really wanted to build something that was super efficient and I could be easily replicated because my goal to have these locations not just in New Mexico, but like take this thing nationwide or do something cool with it.

23:03 Right. And so I was always, and that's something that I still have with me today is where I, every time I'm building something, I'm not thinking about how this is gonna work next week.

23:12 I'm always thinking about how this is gonna work two years down the road, three years down the road. And it's reflected in some of the technology that we utilize today.

23:21 But it all comes from these lessons that you learn along the way. It's not just the good things to do, but it's also like the bad things to do.

23:30 Well, it's all about the lessons or the failures, right? Those are the big ones. And when it succeeds, you don't really call it a lesson.

23:36 You're like, oh, that's the plan. It was always going to happen that way, right? When actually you get lucky, but if you keep setting yourself up, and you put the system procedures in place, you do the work, and you do the activity, eventually you have success if it all jails together.

23:50 But you said you're doing this for a year and banged your head and try in. And so you have the long-term vision, but at one point you're just like, dude, enough, enough.

23:59 So it was when you had your come to Jesus meeting with your partner and he wouldn't pay after you're doing everything.

24:04 And that was enough. You're like, I'll walk away from the sweat equity I've done. And you just said, I'm out.

24:11 I'm worth more than this. What was the mindset at that meeting what was the triggering thought? I've always wanted to jump at opportunities.

24:21 I like change in my life. I feel like that's one of my really strong qualities is that I adapt well and I change and I can pivot quickly.

24:31 And at that moment, I truly just thought worst case scenario. Like the best case scenario of me staying here and topping this out and working with this guy is, I don't know, maybe I make a little bit of money and we somehow find a way to work and I find some way to take a little bit of the beating off

24:55 my body or the potential of go to New York City. I got an interview with a digital marketing company and I was like the 15th, 16th employee that was going to be at that office and they had plans for bringing in lots of employees.

25:13 And I just basically weighed the options and thought, you know, I from a mindset, I know that I have a shit ton of potential in me, like I've always been told that my entire life, right?

25:25 I always felt like I was the underachiever my entire life. Everybody, you know, it's always like, you know, you're so personable and you're likable.

25:33 I was a good athlete. I was voted Q to senior boy in my high school like I was a school of the blind or what exactly yeah very small buses um and so I've always been like successful in a lot of things but never never hit that potential like you know I didn't know what I wanted to do I always so jealous

25:56 these people that like know what they want to do when they're a kid like I own a digital marketing company right now.

26:01 And we're fairly successful, you know, we're constantly growing. And I still go like, I like digital marketing. I like the psychology, like the buying psychology of how people make decisions, but you know, like my dream would be to go play on the PGA champions to it when I turned 50, right?

26:17 So like, what I think being a creature of embracing discomfort and embracing unknown, it really probably drives people crazy around me, probably drives my wife crazy.

26:37 But I feel like there's only so many opportunities in this world. And if you're not jumping at them and you're taking those chances, then you're going to get to the pearly gates one day.

26:47 And I feel like that's what death is. You get up there and they say, this is the life you lived.

26:53 This is the life you could have lived and I want mine to match that life you could have lived as as much as possible.

27:00 And so when it came down to okay, I can stick this out for another year, keep beating the shit out of myself and try to make the succeed or You know what, the grass could be greener, it might not be greener and if it's not greener, I'm okay with that too.

27:15 Right? It's because I'll find something else, right? But it worked out. Right? I got up there. I was like the 15th employee on that floor a year and a half later, there's 300 people on that floor.

27:27 We're an Inc. 500 fastest growing company, two years in a row, making really good money. Instead of fixing scooters and driving all day and sleeping on an air mattress, I'm in a nice apartment and the upper east side and walking through time square on my way to work every morning and helping business

27:49 owners realize their potential. and have them, you know, start advertising better online and building their business and in a new world that they didn't understand where all these buying decisions were being made online.

28:04 And they were like, well, I'm in the phone book. Like, it was that time, right? Right. They like still had even had even pretty not yet.

28:09 I'm like, yeah, well, you need a Facebook page. And so helping business owners kind of get to that, I truly like found a passion more than anything.

28:18 I mean digital marketing is that's the vehicle but the passion I have is helping businesses like actualize their potential and and realize that you know they are a positive influence on their local community that they can really make a difference in other people's lives if they're doing it right but 

28:37 digital marketing is the vehicle in which I use to do that. So, when you say that, because most business owners, entrepreneurs, you're a master technician in something first, right?

28:51 You're an accountant and you become a CPA, hey, you got your master technician doing taxes. And then, oh, let me start a CPA firm, right?

29:01 And then you're a doctor first and you work in a hospital and you get really proficient in whatever your specialty is, whether you're internal medicine or OBGYN or surgeon, whatever whatever that is, ENT, and then, hey, let me start my own business.

29:15 So most business owners are master technicians first, and you become very proficient in one skill set. I, in the financial services, have my previous skill set where I was a, I still am a master technician in one or two areas, which I don't want to say because then you get pigeonholed as expert in one

29:32 of those areas. So I, I don't even let people know my, my expertise anymore because they don't want to be pigeonholed that one, when that one area, I don't want skill set.

29:39 But what would you say then for these entrepreneurs that are engaging you? Number one, how do you find them? Are you going to them?

29:45 Are they coming to you? And then actually, let's go there. Yeah, these business owners that you're finding and helping, are they coming to you?

29:52 We're realizing they need help or you, like, hey, dude, and you're influencing them to the point of like, oh, maybe there is a different way.

29:58 Maybe they're going down this one path, this one forest, and they think they're fine. And then I'll send you, you show up.

30:04 And how does that conversation go, well, maybe I'm not in the right forest or maybe I'm using a hatchet when I should be using an axe or I could have a chainsaw or one of those monster tiller feller things that come through and knock down a forest like five minutes.

30:17 So chat more about that with the business owners because as a technician, it doesn't mean you're skilled to run a business, right?

30:24 You're, I talked about your eye and your eye, your identity and your role. If you are a CPA, for example, and your identity is always a 10, that's your, who you are as person my identities was a tent, but it's a CPA.

30:35 If you're a CPA, maybe your role as a CPA is eight or nine or 10 depending on your specialty, but then running a firm and managing people and hiring people and having a benefits program and having accounts receivable and accounts payable and you know, all those different facets of the business is a whole

30:51 other skill set. So that role being a business owner is generally a one or two, right, until you get the experience.

30:58 So when a business owner or when you engage with a business owner, is there that is it an epiphany?

31:03 Is it a moment? Are they coming to you realizing I need help? I want to do some different or you reach out to them saying, hey, you could be doing something different.

31:11 Yeah, I think with everything, it's got to be a bit of a mix. Right now, two-thirds of our clients have come from referrals or inbound.

31:21 Only a few of our clients come in from our actual sales and marketing efforts that is the big, one of the big goals that we have here for Q4 is actually really amping up our own marketing because as I was building this company, I, I, the whole reason I built it was because the digital marketing companies

31:43 that I worked before it. So a two-time ink 500 fastest growing company. So I learned a lot about business growth.

31:51 And the next one that I I worked for was, we were a two-time ink five, the first one was ink 500, the second one was ink 5000.

31:59 With the first company, their average retention was like six months. For a client or employee. For a client, which always kind of blew my mind, right?

32:10 Like if you're doing good work, you shouldn't be losing clients. The second one, average retention was about like eight and a half months.

32:17 And my last job at that company was the director of client success so it was affectionately looked at as like the professional shit eater.

32:28 Like when we got to that seven, eight-month level and these people didn't feel like they're getting any value anymore, it was my job to go in there and like sweet talk them and change up what we were doing and you know redo like a rediscovery with them.

32:44 Re-imagined some solutions for them. Let me ask you this, sorry, I'm gonna cut it up. Were you delivering value or was it BS?

32:51 It was a level of value. It was with digital marketing, there are so many shortcuts that digital marketing companies take to really cut costs.

33:03 And, you know, so that company was using a system of content for SEO that used to work, but was waning and effectiveness pretty dramatically.

33:16 Okay, and so they, they eventually had to pivot as well in kind of how they were doing things. But Michael, I'm sorry, this company was like, what if I just capped every client I signed?

33:27 It's as odd, you know, thought to have in digital marketing because nobody states with the digital marketing company very long, especially in legal and medical.

33:39 Mostly because of, you know, there's the grasses greener, there's companies like fine law, scorpions, uh, patient pop things like that out there, which are very aggressive in their, uh, their marketing efforts and their sales efforts.

33:51 Yeah. Patient pop things. I'm a doctor, by the way. I see it on YouTube. I get advertised by patient pop 24, like 24 or seven for some reason every time YouTube ad comes on.

34:00 I get say to the hospital and I get patient pop. I don't know why, but actually, now I started getting some podcasts one because obviously, I think my phone's listed me right now.

34:09 Now I'm getting podcast thing. podcast, accelerator things, because we're doing this. And anyway, so I don't know why patient pop follows me around, but somehow they think I'm a doctor.

34:18 So I understand. Well, it's funny. So I did not go to the fine law website, but I was on a call with a prospective client and talking to them about like these boring sites.

34:30 Like there's this people, they're not even clients yet, but I was talking about it's three female attorneys that do like business law and one of them does personal injury law.

34:42 I mean, what like a great differentiating factor, right? Three young, attractive women attorneys that are bad asses, right? And they got this website that looks like it's the same thing that the 60-year-old guy that's been doing, you know, criminal law for 40 years built, you know, and I'm like, guys

35:04 , like, they got thrown in a lawyer box. They got thrown in the box. That's exactly what it is. And that's, that's what these companies do, like the final scorpion paint your pop, all their websites look the same.

35:15 Yep. There's no displaying the value proposition. So when I go into, when people get introduced to me to talk to them about marketing, I think that one of the biggest things that surprised me is how little I talk because you're a talker.

35:35 I am. But in my sales process, it's consultative to the level of probably annoyance, right? Because they want me to just throw features and benefits at them, right?

35:46 But what I want is what makes you special? You know, what is it about you? You know, we talk about the zero moment of truth.

35:54 A lot. This is a concept. Have you ever heard that concept before? No, I have not. Tell me about that.

35:59 All right. Cool. I'm going to give you a quick minute. Maybe you can teach me. This is cool. I like to learn.

36:03 So the zero moment of truth, this actually came out from Google over a decade ago. This is not a new concept.

36:10 Okay. But as technology was becoming more prevalent in our society, you know, we all have these computers in our pockets now, it changed up the traditional marketing model.

36:19 You know, if you think of like Mad Men, I always like to think of that because it really clearly identifies that's three step marketing model that businesses always had.

36:27 It was awareness, you know, billboards, posters, commercials, all that, you know, even like being listed in a phone book. You know, that's all the same idea, right?

36:35 People have to know you exist. Right. The next one is the experience. So, you know, I used this law firm.

36:41 They were awesome. Great. Now I'm had a family barbecue and somebody says, you know, I need an attorney. Great. Here's a referral.

36:47 You know, that's kind of how that business went. And it was really like what the overall impression people have from that business then led you into stage three, which is advocacy, either they're an advocate or they're not.

37:03 And so either they're saying at that barbecue, these guys are awesome or they're saying these guys suck, don't use them.

37:08 That was traditional marketing, just have awareness, capture and get them to talk about you. But and that's always called awareness first moment of truth, second moment of truth.

37:18 So the zero moment of truth comes in between awareness and people actually making a buying decision. We all of these computers in our pockets, we are the Netflix generation, we are the Amazon generation, every single thing out there in the world has stars, it has information, it has visuals associated

37:34 with it, it has, you know, emotional connections that people form because most people are only on a website for about 45 seconds.

37:41 So I mean, you got 45 seconds to tell them why you are the solution to their problem. And if you're thinking from a legal standpoint, I type personal injury attorney near me.

37:50 I get this quick list. That's why SEO is so important because about 80% of people click in the top top chunk of SEO or the top chunk of organics usually top three.

37:58 So if you're in that top three in organics, business is good. You're doing all right. All right. So, so that's obviously a big focus that I always look at is, you know, how we, how we're going to get you up there and we have some amazing technicians up here that do fantastic SEO with us.

38:16 And then there's like the visuals like if I see a map listing all these little dots are popping up. What's the one thing that's going to make me pick this dot or that dot, you know, I've got this list on the side and stars associated with it.

38:27 So if I see a three and a half at a four and a half home, like three and a half is not even in the conversation.

38:33 Now I'm looking at like two four and a half. And I click on the review so I can like read one or two of them and you know, I see this guy, he's got good review, no answer, he's got a better view, no answer.

38:44 All right, well, he's an attorney, right? When you say no answer, you mean response to that review? No, no response to that review.

38:51 Are you allowed to, I thought you can't with the whole thing on the platform? Oh, you answer. or answer every single review.

38:57 Good, bad, indifferent. Why would you not take that opportunity? I didn't know you could. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. 100% you should be answering every single review that's out there.

39:06 Because if you think about it this way, if somebody came up to you face to face and said, your business is shit, I had a horrible experience.

39:12 Right. You wouldn't just turn around and walk away. You'd be like, oh, that's awkward. You'd probably say, hey, what happened?

39:20 I'd love to know more about the situation. I want to fix this. you know, I want to make sure that, you know, you're, we're meeting your expectations here.

39:26 Let's talk about this. And so why wouldn't you do the exact same thing online? And so one thing I know my wife does it all the time.

39:33 She only reads bad reviews and she looks to see how the business kind of responds to that if their customer service is at a high level.

39:40 And when you're talking about attorneys, I mean, every single one of these cases is like 10,000 and revenue, 20,000 revenue, you know, a million and revenue because of the big case.

39:47 You know, So why they don't take that time to acknowledge the good reviews. Thank you so much. We really appreciate that.

39:54 That's the exact experience we want to convey. If you ever have a legal situation again or you know anybody, please have them reach out to us.

40:02 We'd be honored to have that opportunity. Now I imagine I'm comparing two law firms and they both have four and a five, so I look at their reviews.

40:09 One of them is answering reviews like that. The other one is just leaving that stuff out in the open, which one do I think has better customer service?

40:16 And that makes perfect sense. That's a great example. Yeah. And then go ahead. Oh, it's just going to say and then you get into the visuals and because we look at pictures.

40:24 I mean, if you don't have pictures on your Google business listing or your Yelp page that are conveying that emotional connection that you want people to experience when they're finding you and they're in this zero moment of truth, I'm making a decision.

40:34 Buying decision. Very next step. Like the images that law firms and medical practices use blow my mind. It's crazy. You can't really tell what's going on.

40:45 There's no smiling faces. It's maybe like, or the ones that just don't put any pictures up and all of this is the Google circle.

40:51 And I just see a giant cement building. Right. You know what? What is that doing? Well, I think it kind of wrap it up.

40:58 I'm going hit you with one one or two nuggets, right? So I'm just letting you know it's coming. And you look at financial visor space with a conference and someone's talking. They do advisor websites and because we're so heavily regulated, everyone's like, oh, what color do you want?

41:13 And what do you want? Well, we're guiding light for our clients. So we need a lighthouse. And what makes you feel good?

41:18 Oh, the color blue is soothing. She's like, every financial visor has a blue website with a lighthouse. Like everyone's the exact same and everyone's to go the same way, which is why I have a red target.

41:27 I was, don't use red. Red's aggressive. Red's a bad color. or it's angry like boom, that's why I'm using it because I don't wanna be like every other financial advisor.

41:35 But I think it's funny. Everyone says, if you're gonna buy something, the guy goes out, wants to buy a Porsche, right?

41:43 Oh, it's fun, it's beautiful, it's fast, it makes, I like the sound, it makes me feel good. But it tells his wife, oh, I just need to get to work.

41:51 Just a car for me to get to work, right? Logically, you buy something or you're engaged emotionally, right? So if you're a client, you're helping them a prospect to look at their website and they feel an emotion of if I'm looking for an injury attorney, I'm looking for a money, something obviously happened

42:07 , right? So I'm looking for someone that emotionally connects with me. But then when I make that decision, maybe that site is emotionally appealing.

42:14 But then I justify it logically. I needed this attorney and they're going to help me fight my case because I was injured.

42:20 But if I go to the two websites and one emotionally turns me off, the other one emotionally attracts me. Obviously we go to the attorney that attracts me because it mostly is appealing.

42:33 So chat, chat with chat about that. And that's kind of like, is that really what you do is help that business owner create an emotional experience?

42:40 Is that and how important is that versus being logical? That's great. That's one reason why I'm talking about the sales process that I have.

42:50 I ask so many questions is because the only way that I can properly reflect somebody online in a way that is displaying their value and building those emotional connections quickly is if I know them pretty well.

43:04 So I had this one attorney and one of my favorite questions to ask them is, what emotion do you want people to feel when they first find out about you?

43:13 That's everything. And so this guy said, well, I'm a personal injury attorney. I deal mostly with people that are injured.

43:21 They're physically mentally, not in a great place, you know, they're, they're, I mean, if you're, if you are getting an attorney, this is not the best time of your life, right?

43:31 Right. Because these people, so many of them feel like a little bit somber about it, like, like these dark clouds are in their life.

43:39 But what I want them to experience is like, when they meet me, I'm, I'm a pretty open guy. I'm a bubbly guy.

43:45 This guy, like he does after school talks at the local police station for the disadvantaged about chasing their dreams and he gives backpacks to the local school like he's a great positive impact on his local community.

43:56 And he said, I want people to see me as, you know, the clouds are dissipating. There's sunlight coming through better days are, are ahead of you.

44:04 Right. And what better emotion could a good attorney convey. Right. That better days are ahead of you. And so if you go to his website, and I probably could go to it, he'll probably appreciate all the traffic.

44:16 It's Drake loggroup.com and you see the hero image you get to the site. It's him. He's a good looking dude.

44:23 He's got it's nice suit on smiling face. It's not like a car accident going on or anything. It's a cityscape of LA clouds are dissipating the sun's coming out his logo and it says you're safe with Drake.

44:37 So the the emotion he's portraying is what is that you're going through a hard time and I'm here to walk you through this journey and get you on the other side in a better shape.

44:49 I love it. So think about that for for veterans and entrepreneurs like so if you're gonna give any guidance to a veteran entrepreneur that's getting their business running or your company has their business and you're trying to attract new customers what's that one thing they need to consider when they're

45:03 building their marketing program and or looking for a marketing coach. Yeah, I would say first, sit down and think really hard about who you are and what you do and the value that you provide.

45:15 Because I can't tell you how many businesses I say, like, what are your core values? Well, we kind of, I'm like, no, like, you should be able to just tell me, like, you should have at least three things that are like, these are the principles in which we operate our business that we use our values card

45:29 . I can't see because we actually have values cards where we actually run clients through and we actually help them pick out their five biggest values.

45:37 Before we give them any advice, we have to know their values. So I agree with what you're saying 100 percent.

45:41 That was a good time. I just looked over my values cards are there. So that's perfect. It's shocking to me.

45:46 I was taking a lot of notes as I was going through building our company and like all the sales meetings that I would have and some of the speaking opportunities that I had, I would ask people like, do you know your company's core values?

45:59 And it was shocking me. I'd say maybe like five, 10 percent of people actually like know them and you know this is this the backbone of your business and so you say yeah so it's just pulling it together would you say that first and foremost if you're going to look at a marketing plan or you want to grow

46:15 you're going to hire an expert you need to know your own values first and then what kind of emotional connection you want those values to convey to your prospective clients or customers is that yeah I think that it's a process first you got to know your core values, then you look at your ideal clients

46:33 . And that's another thing that people are just kind of real wishy-washy on, right? Like, well, I can help everybody. Like, yeah, but if you could only choose one type of person that you could work with for the rest of your life, like who would that be?

46:45 That's an entrepreneurist. Boom. That's mine. Perfect. And so now you cater your message to that one thing. Sure, you're going to get other people, right?

46:53 Other people are going to resonate with a message. Other people maybe they'll just get referred to you because they had a great experience, but all of your marketing is catered towards that person.

47:02 And so I basically forced them, forced a lot of my clients into really thinking about these things. And it's something that they've never done because they have one business class in law school, right?

47:13 Got it. They never actually sat down and thought about that thing. And so I tell them, is it a man or woman?

47:18 Like, well, they're both. I'm like, no, is it a man or woman? Like, what is it? How old are they?

47:23 What are they doing? How do they spend their time? And I get them to like form this picture and now when I'm building a graphic like for Drake, he said, you know what it's usually a woman mother of two, you know she's 35 to 45 she you know I got got him to really like dig into this and now when you get

47:42 to the website, you know that's who we're talking to other people are going to relate to it for sure, but if we're heading that target market.

47:49 Um, let me jump in. So what you're saying, then, for any veteran entrepreneur business or any business, but if you're also a veteran entrepreneur, that's who we're chatting, chatting ideally.

47:59 It's listening to this. It's understanding your values first and foremost, understand your ideal client prospect number two. And then have, if you don't have the skill set to draft that message, an organization like yours can help them with that, correct?

48:13 Yeah. And so I'm going to ask you right now, how would someone, how would a veteran entrepreneur find you? What's your contact information?

48:19 How would they find you and know and know how to reach you? Yeah, so just like we were talking about Z-Mot earlier, Z-MotExpert.com is just Z-M-O-T Z-M-O-T.

48:33 Yep expert.com as in as in Zulu Mike Oscar Tango There we go expert.com There we go So that is That's kind of like my my personal page that I use a lot of stuff for so like my calendars on there You know, you can I have a lot of free resources.

48:51 We have a webinar out for how to optimize your Google business listing Just say it say it twice though. Keep it simple.

48:57 Thank you. I'll reach it. And then your phone number two Perfect I also I operate most of a calendar So that's why I say go grab a time of my calendar Because they can pull that from your website.

49:10 Yep, and they can pull that right from zbot expert.com We also have hashtags dash smart dot com, but also LinkedIn.

49:16 You can just look for me. It's Zmart expert also. Yeah, so you can always find me on LinkedIn and As far as the company phone.

49:25 Yeah, give me a call at three two three seven one six two zero two one See that again. It's three two three seven one six two zero two one Awesome Paul Patrice before you yell at us come back say hello What I think we're gonna have to set up some more time so we can just keep these things go and you've

49:43 got really good stuff here But, Brett, how can listeners reach you? Oh, sure thing. Here's on our website, book a call, SWE90.com, strategic wealth endeavor, Sierra Whiskey echo 9 or 0.com.

49:56 And you book a call and happy to chat with anybody about anything, really. If you're a veteran, just want to chat.

50:03 I don't even talk about my business anymore. It's really just trading stories with entrepreneurs. It's kind of cool and I actually love it.

50:08 So, Patrice, that's how they reach me. All right, very good. And now, all you guys who are listening, simplify your lives.

50:13 all you have to do is follow the podcast, that way you won't miss an episode, and please share with others who would appreciate what Brett and his guests offer.

‍